00:00:00: I think we need an entire revolution when it comes to fashion.

00:00:04: I think we need a lot of transparency within the fashion industry and supply chain

00:00:10: and also getting the message across not just to designers but also to consumers.

00:00:15: Welcome to the special English edition of Degorsa Neustadt,

00:00:20: a German podcast series by Zabilla Bar,

00:00:23: in which she talks to pioneering leaders who,

00:00:26: inspired by the World Economic Forum's great reset initiative,

00:00:30: create revolutionary projects that actually do make our world smarter, greener and fairer.

00:00:36: What if fashion could stitch together peace, sustainability and global transformation?

00:00:46: Today we meet Runa Ray, a designer, visionary and environmentalist,

00:00:51: who has turned couture into a powerful tool for change.

00:00:55: From the Global Peace Flag Initiative endorsed by the United Nations

00:01:00: and described as the world's largest movement for peace and climate action,

00:01:04: to the catwalk of the Monte Carlo Fashion Week, the Met Gala and the Grammy Awards,

00:01:09: Runa has redefined the very purpose of fashion. Born in Bangalore, India and shaped by a journey

00:01:17: that spans the creative halls of Dior and Galliano in Paris to sustainable innovation on a world stage,

00:01:25: Runa's work is a testament to the belief that luxury and responsibility can coexist.

00:01:31: She is pioneering algae-based textiles, zero-stitch techniques and plant-based dyes,

00:01:39: while inspiring communities to embrace peace and climate action.

00:01:44: A very warm welcome to you, Runa. So much success.

00:01:49: I would like to start with your Global Peace Flag Initiative.

00:01:55: Thank you so much, Sibel, for having me on your podcast and discussing these really important

00:02:02: issues that are pertinent at this moment and for the world. And thank you for mentioning the Global

00:02:09: Peace Flag, which is an initiative that is really close to my heart. I am a fashion designer who

00:02:15: turned environmentalist and I come from an industry where fashion's waste is something

00:02:22: which is not very uncommon. So if you look at fashion's waste, every garment that we wear

00:02:29: at one point was prototyped and it was prototyped in muslin and muslin comes from cotton.

00:02:36: And we've always heard about how cotton can be a thirsty crop, how much of pesticide went to,

00:02:42: you know, the making of the cotton crop, the dyeing of the fabric and then processing it and

00:02:48: creating it into textile and then finding it into garments. But what happens to these prototypes?

00:02:54: They all end up in the landfill because you can't make a garment out of a half prototype.

00:02:59: So what I did was I decided that fashion had to have a voice. I mean, fashion has a huge

00:03:07: outreach anyways. People love fashion. People love to go to shows. There's something about the

00:03:13: fashion industry which has the glamour and the pull towards it. So fashion can also have a purpose.

00:03:19: So I decided that I was going to use these prototypes and give fashion a voice, not just

00:03:26: when it came to sustainability but also for peace. Now, if you ask me as to how I started the Global

00:03:33: Peace Flag, this started off during COVID. So during COVID when we were all at home and,

00:03:40: you know, the wars seized and people unfortunately all over the world were dying,

00:03:46: we saw that humanity stepped up. People across borders were helping each other.

00:03:53: They were vaccines that were flying across. People were manufacturing vaccines.

00:03:58: It didn't matter which colour, ethnicity, religion you came from, the hospitals were full,

00:04:03: the doctors were helping people. So where did this beauty of humanity come from which we didn't see?

00:04:10: That was when I decided that the world was actually a lovely place to live in.

00:04:17: And I decided to come up with the concept of the Global Peace Flag. So using fashion's waste,

00:04:25: which were the prototypes, I had them made into canvases and I had schools and the youth

00:04:31: write and draw upon it as to what they would like to see in the world, in the face of peace

00:04:39: and in terms of unity and harmony. So this project grew. It started connecting 194 countries.

00:04:48: It was endorsed by the United Nations. We had countries which were in war with each other

00:04:56: contributing towards the peace flag where, for example, you had students from India,

00:05:03: you had students from Pakistan coming together and writing about peace. Now the beauty about

00:05:08: this peace flag is that it doesn't matter which social standing you come from, which colour,

00:05:14: ethnicity, religion, which country you're from, it's all about being sewn together on this one

00:05:21: fabric. And this fabric extends as a flag and we're looking at wrapping the world with peace.

00:05:28: So your canvas could probably be with somebody who you would, you know, like somebody in prison,

00:05:36: for example. But that person is reformed and that person wants to contribute towards peace.

00:05:42: So it's the great equalizer. It connects everybody together and that was when I started

00:05:47: the global peace flag and that's what inspired the project.

00:05:51: Yeah. So you started in 2020 and how much progress did you make?

00:05:57: So now we have over 100,000 canvases that have been submitted. We had the recent exhibition at

00:06:06: the United Nations which was to be for a month but got extended for two months.

00:06:12: The project basically took over the entire facade on the inside of the UN which has the

00:06:20: portraits of the Secretary General. And now we're looking at taking it to the White House next year

00:06:27: during the Memorial Day weekend. The reason we are doing it during the Memorial Day weekend is

00:06:31: because we're trying to turn the, flip the coin about war and create something which is peaceful

00:06:40: about it. And going forward, working with religions around the world, the faiths around

00:06:46: the world who are coming together for peace and for climate justice, we're going to be working

00:06:51: with them and take the flag basically to various religious spots and looking at the Vatican also.

00:06:57: Wow. That's fantastic. When we, if we look at all these platforms you work on to

00:07:08: amplify your message with what we said at the introduction you've been at the Met Gala and

00:07:13: Monaco and so on. So you brought the sustainability into the spotlight,

00:07:20: combining it with peace. How come you run into so many open doors?

00:07:29: Hebel, you know, there is something very interesting in the garments that we wear.

00:07:38: We don't know who's made it. We don't know the faces behind it. The industry is vast,

00:07:44: but we still like to wear the clothes that we purchase. I'll give you an example. When I had

00:07:50: my store in India, I have, and India has people of different faiths, right, working together and

00:07:57: in harmony. I would probably have a man who is from Islam who would have done the embroidery

00:08:04: on this wedding gown. I would have a tailor who comes from the Hindu religion who would have,

00:08:10: you know, put it together and probably the person who cut the entire fabric would have been a

00:08:15: Christian. So you have three different religions coming together on this one wedding garment that

00:08:20: is going to be worn by this woman on her most special day. Now, this is something which really

00:08:28: stuck with me. And I was like, when we wear clothes, we love what we wear. Why don't we love

00:08:35: the people who also make it? That is when I just to infuse the concept of humanity, peace,

00:08:44: and sustainability. When we talk about the Prince Albert Foundation, I absolutely love the foundation

00:08:51: for what they do. It is not just what they're doing now, but it is intergenerational.

00:08:58: We are talking about the Prince's father, his father, the family coming together,

00:09:05: taking in artifacts from the ocean, deciding to put them together, showing them to the scientists

00:09:11: and telling them what the creatures of the deep were, educating people. And now what the foundation

00:09:16: is doing is immense. The projects that they fund, the restoration projects that they take care of,

00:09:25: and also educating the people about what it is when it comes to not just the oceans, but also

00:09:32: indigenous communities, bringing people together through the Green Shift Festival, using art,

00:09:38: using philosophy. I think it's fantastic. So for me as a fashion environmentalist to partner

00:09:44: with these organizations is not just trying to get my work across, but it's also trying to support

00:09:51: them in their work and hopefully that we can collectively make a difference. And the similar

00:09:57: thing with the Met Gala, the Met Gala is renowned for the celebrities stopping by at the red carpet.

00:10:05: But like I said, fashion needs to have a voice and a reason behind it. So for me to use these

00:10:12: platforms was not just for the celebrity to look good, but also for people to question why she

00:10:19: was wearing this particular garment. In this case, it was a him. It was Stephen Kald from

00:10:27: the Council of Fashion Designers of America, where I designed his entire tuxedo and used

00:10:33: the waist crystals from Swarovski, where we did the entire jacket in braille. And that spoke about

00:10:41: the concept of giving from Khalil Gibran. So when people looked at him, people said, wow,

00:10:47: that's a beautiful dinner jacket. And it had all these crystals that were running down in stripes.

00:10:54: But it gave him an opportunity to speak about how his old tuxedo was repurposed,

00:11:00: how Swarovski donated the crystals that they didn't want to use, and how it was made into a

00:11:05: garment that was taken at the Met. And that I was hoping would probably inspire future designers

00:11:12: to know how to be innovative when it comes to existing garments that are there in our wardrobe.

00:11:19: And at the same time, working with industries and also their waste and not something that is just

00:11:24: produced. So in those ways, I think these platforms have definitely opened up not just avenues for me,

00:11:32: but also for our future thinkers. And are you received at all those places was the same positivity?

00:11:42: The positivity, yes. With the peace flag, there was a bit of a flak because going back to using

00:11:50: fashions, waste for a social cause. Now, I believe that everybody has to have a voice across the

00:11:56: world. And when people are driven by the media that they consume, so they are going to write

00:12:04: their opinion. And it's all to do with peace. So but when we had the exhibition at the United

00:12:10: Nations, we had a bit of a problem with the Israeli delegation who came by and said that

00:12:18: there was no nobody who wrote about Israel, but everyone spoke about freeing Palestine.

00:12:23: We had to explain and tell them that it wasn't a flag that was speaking about

00:12:29: freeing a particular country, it was a flag that was giving a voice to anybody and everybody.

00:12:35: Similarly, when we had the Ukraine delegation that came by, there was a bit of a problem where

00:12:41: they were like, if we have the flag that is exhibited by Russia, we will not want to be a part of the

00:12:47: exhibition. This is something that was a bit of a struggle, because it's a unifying platform.

00:12:54: And it's about creating tensions between countries. It's about giving the people in the

00:13:01: countries to speak about what peace means to them. So that was probably one of the most difficult

00:13:07: oppositions that was actually met by the global peace flag. But in terms of sustainability,

00:13:16: I think it's been very, very clear that this is the way to go ahead and we need to educate the new

00:13:24: generation of designers and consumers and let them know what they're buying. And it's only through

00:13:31: art and fashion and discussions of the sort that we can actually create a purpose that can go further.

00:13:36: Can I quickly go back to the, because I was focusing a bit on sustainability.

00:13:46: When your models walk the catwalk, let's say like in Monte Carlo, what is the first expression?

00:13:57: What do you see when you look into people's reaction?

00:14:03: The garments are very beautiful. So people love it. There are some pieces that people do not

00:14:13: understand, which needs to be explained. Like at Monte Carlo, I decided to work with the

00:14:20: Monaco Scientific Center. It was with the scientists that I wanted to create a garment

00:14:28: that spoke about their work, which normally is done in closed forums. So when I worked with

00:14:36: these scientists, we decided to work on coral restoration. And I said, I want to understand

00:14:42: more about what is happening under the water and what is it that actually destroys corals

00:14:47: and keeps fish away from these coral reserves. So they said it was noise pollution. And I thought

00:14:55: it was something that we really needed to look into because noise pollution under the water is

00:15:00: something that we don't see. And when we don't see, we don't know what's happening. So I worked with

00:15:07: them and found out that there were certain graphs that they already had of a healthy coral reef,

00:15:13: of an unhealthy coral reef. And it was through sound of the fish inhabiting those reefs that

00:15:19: they knew that the reef was getting healthy because it's only a healthy reef that will have

00:15:24: fish around it. So I worked with the graph, I decided to create a print and took it and made

00:15:30: a dress which was done out of caulk. And it looked like it was completely scalloped. The reason I

00:15:35: used caulk was because caulk is one of those materials that they've been using in the fishing

00:15:42: industry for like thousands of years, whether it's for floaters or whether it's for your

00:15:48: hook and line. And I thought it was a great sustainable material to kind of work on,

00:15:53: which ties the entire concept of the oceans plus also what the Monaco Scientific Center was doing.

00:15:59: So when the model came out with this really pretty dress, people thought it was really pretty,

00:16:03: but they didn't know what it was. So I had to kind of explain it to them and say, you're looking

00:16:08: at a graph of a healthy coral reef that is hand-painted on this scalloped caulk dress.

00:16:14: And then they understood what the concept was and it is interesting because Monaco also hosts the F1.

00:16:21: But there's a lot of sound pollution. But at the same time, it's not happening where they are

00:16:27: taking care of the coral reef. So you have a certain part which is more commercial where you

00:16:32: have the yachts and everything. So that's fine. But I wanted people to understand that even when

00:16:37: it comes to tourism and it comes to taking care of the places that you would probably would like

00:16:45: to visit when it came to beach resorts, how important sound was when it came to these really

00:16:52: delicate marine ecosystems. So yeah, so that was pretty interesting when that dress came out.

00:17:00: And the other one was when I used burlap to speak about another sustainable material.

00:17:06: So garment had actual mustard seeds that were sprouting out of it. So I had this garment with

00:17:15: me that I took from the US and I kept spray and I got into Monaco 10 days earlier before the show

00:17:22: and I added a cupboard and I had the seeds embedded and I kept spraying it every day

00:17:27: till the 10th day when they started blooming. And the model had to wear it. But then it was,

00:17:35: you know, her back was wet and the, you know, she was actually wearing a living dress. And I was

00:17:40: like, don't worry, it's just going to be just one minute and you're going to finish it. But

00:17:45: we had to kind of get the message across. And the rest of the garments were done with this

00:17:51: indigenous printing technique where I used seaweed to print and everything was unique and

00:17:57: organic. So I wanted to show that sustainability need not look boring, but at the same time can

00:18:05: look really beautiful and carry a message. And all these methods and the materials you talk about,

00:18:13: how did you find all that? So there is this one particular material that I'm working on and

00:18:20: that is to do with seaweed and algae. And I have a patent that is in progress right now.

00:18:28: So this material is basically a combination of invasive algae and seaweed. The reason I'm using

00:18:36: seaweed is because it gets to be a byproduct of the food industry, of the fertilizer industry.

00:18:43: And at the same time, you have invasive algae that is taking over the oceans and not letting

00:18:48: seaweed grow. So you need to work towards marine restoration. So we are cleaning up the oceans

00:18:55: trying to get the invasive algae. And at the same time, it provides an alternative livelihood when

00:19:05: it comes to people who are working, say in the global south. And if you look at the north, where

00:19:12: you also have the invasive algae, it's about how do you clean this up because it interferes with

00:19:18: your recreational spots. And people do not want to go into those places because it just takes up,

00:19:25: takes over the lakes and takes over the oceans. And most of it is because of human activities,

00:19:29: because of the pesticides that are leaching into the waterways. It's because of the high nitrogen

00:19:36: content that is causing this algae to grow rapidly every year. When I started noticing this algae

00:19:44: growth, it was in 2020. And now I see this growth in 2024. And now it's massive. Now you can see

00:19:51: the ducks walking over it, not just wading through it. And it's six months during summer and takes

00:19:59: over the entire place. My God. Okay. And if we talk about the cost of producing all those clothes,

00:20:10: how does it differ from industrial production? So for me, the concept is mostly waste to wealth.

00:20:19: And that's what I like to work with, especially when it comes to my industry. I like to analyze

00:20:26: what is it that we could mitigate in the industry to make your process better. So when I speak to

00:20:33: students and I when I teach them about sustainability, for example, always tell them, if your design is

00:20:40: going to be print heavy, what could you do to make your print sustainable where you could be like,

00:20:47: okay, maybe my garment, maybe I do not know the source of my material. I do not know what has

00:20:54: gone into growing it, but I can control the process when this when this fabric comes in my hand,

00:21:00: because I know exactly how to print it in a very sustainable way that doesn't waste water,

00:21:05: that doesn't cause water pollution. And at the same time, I know how when it comes back to me

00:21:10: that I can probably, you know, recycle it, or I know what has gone into making off the print

00:21:15: when it comes to the dies. Similarly, when it comes to designers who want to start their garment

00:21:22: from scratch, like what I would what I normally do is working with your local farmers or wherever

00:21:31: you're sourcing your fabric from, say, for example, if it's from the US, you have flax,

00:21:35: which is very, very easily available, you even have cotton, go there, see if you can get the raw

00:21:41: material, work with your local viewers, make your own fabric, you're a designer, you don't need

00:21:48: yards and yards of fabric because you're not looking into mass. Now mass production is

00:21:54: something else which we I will speak about. But when you're creating prototypes and a small

00:22:00: batch, work locally with these people, get the yarn, find out if you could have,

00:22:06: if you could, for example, grow indigo that would, you know, create the nitrogen fixing in the soil,

00:22:14: which means that you can also harvest the indigo where you have your own blue,

00:22:17: you're creating your own dies, and at the same time, you're owning the entire circular process.

00:22:21: So while it looks like it's expensive, I think if we don't follow this in the beginning of our

00:22:29: process, the entire end is going to be very, very costly, not just for you, but for me,

00:22:36: everybody around us. And that is exactly the waste that we are seeing. So what is it that we could

00:22:43: do to mitigate our waste lies in our hands. And you mentioned that you work with the local farmers

00:22:52: and also on the other hand with scientists and artists and policymakers and people from different

00:22:58: religions. Do you think this approach is crucial to the success of your endeavor?

00:23:08: I think it's more than crucial. It's imperative for success of any endeavor, because right now,

00:23:18: nobody can work in isolation. It is important to understand what is happening behind the product

00:23:27: that you're making. You cannot just go and create a garment, for example, and put it out there in

00:23:35: the market and wash your hands off it. Because the world is changing. You have so many policies

00:23:39: that are coming into place. I mean, the Californian governor just signed Gavin Newsom, just signed this

00:23:46: law, which is called producer-owned responsibility, which means that if you produce or you manufacture,

00:23:53: you have to be responsible for taking that garment back and doing whatever you want to do with it,

00:23:57: whether it is recycling it, whether it's upcycling it, whether it's making another product out of it.

00:24:02: But you need to own that. I mean, the EU also has its own very stringent laws when it comes to

00:24:08: waste. I mean, they've come up with a law, this was I think around two to three years ago, where

00:24:13: I mean, which is again in progress right now, where around 30% of the new yarn that is going to

00:24:19: be used in fibers has to be recycled. So the only way we can do that is working with scientists.

00:24:27: The only way we can do that is working with policymakers, because then we need to understand

00:24:32: what the future is. And at the same time, when you start educating the consumers,

00:24:38: it's going to be through your retail units. So you need to have your supply chain also in place,

00:24:44: where you can tell the person at the retail store where this garment actually came from and why the

00:24:51: consumer shouldn't carry that guilt of buying because they need to be confident that what they

00:24:58: are purchasing is not contributing to the negative side of the environment, but towards the positive

00:25:05: growth of it. But that doesn't stop us from looking at greenwashing that happens,

00:25:14: where it has happened several times where you have companies who speak about

00:25:20: recycling a t-shirt and put the boards out there so the consumers come and they're like,

00:25:27: oh, I don't mind buying probably, you know, five, six t-shirts for my family, because I know if I

00:25:32: give it back, it's going to be recycled. So what happens is that when you have a statement like

00:25:39: this put out and you meet those people at conferences like COP26, COP27, 2829 and you ask them,

00:25:53: do you have these recycling facilities actually in place? And they're like, well, we have it in

00:25:59: development, but we're looking for investment. That is something that really upsets you because

00:26:05: you're like, why would you put this message out to consumers who don't attend COP and don't know

00:26:12: the discussions that are happening internally? So when you question them and you ask them,

00:26:19: so is your recycling as fast as your sell-throughs and they don't have that in place, then what are

00:26:28: they selling? And who is checking on it? It's very difficult to check on this because it's to be

00:26:37: very closed and talking about conglomerates, big money here, supporting a lot of sustainable fashion

00:26:47: initiatives, which gets to be another eye wash and another green wash without truly speaking about

00:26:55: what is happening within their own industry. I was just thinking because I had in my program

00:27:05: the chairman of the who set up the International Sustainability Standards Board,

00:27:11: who set the standards for sustainability. And my understanding is if companies sign up for that

00:27:20: and they soon, I think legally will have to, is that, do you think this is a guarantee

00:27:28: for greener production? I hope it's a guarantee. I mean, we all hope

00:27:37: guarantee, but you need to also understand that the fashion industry is very fragmented.

00:27:47: So you might have the headquarters of the big manufacturing house, say in Europe or in the US,

00:27:55: but the manufacturing happens, say in the global south or and you would send your managers for

00:28:04: compliance checks. You can't send them to go and see whether the factory is operating as per compliance,

00:28:11: but you don't know what the factory does after closing hours. Now, the reason I say this is

00:28:17: because I have been privy to this and I have seen this happen where you would have factories who

00:28:23: would take in orders from probably five different organizations, too much to handle, the organization

00:28:32: thinking that they're handling only their production, right? So you have company aid that has given,

00:28:39: say, 5,000 genes and this factory is like, great, we can do it. But the factory goes and approaches

00:28:43: company B, takes another 5,000 genes and see another 5,000. So they have 15,000 genes that they need

00:28:48: to manufacture, but the capacity is probably 2,000 to 5,000 only, but they've taken the order for 15,000.

00:28:56: So what they do is that they subcontract and how do they subcontract it? They send it out to other

00:29:01: factories that have absolutely no compliance or they take migrant tailor workers who come in at

00:29:07: night, sit there, finish the work and they go. The factories have no compliance. We saw the

00:29:13: Rana Plaza tragedy that took place, which, you know, where they have it on foundations that are

00:29:19: not built to support something that is industrial. Or you have the migrant workers who sleep at night

00:29:25: on the factory floors, wake up, hide themselves during the day and you have the compliance officer

00:29:31: who comes in because you know when the person's coming in and everything is pick and span,

00:29:35: you don't have the other orders that are seen. So you can't blame, I'm not trying to be very dark in

00:29:42: this, but I hope that there would be more stringent ways to actually look at how garments are

00:29:50: manufactured and deep delve. It's almost like being an undercover agent, you know what I mean?

00:29:56: But sometimes it's very important because otherwise uncovering the truth is not exactly the truth.

00:30:05: Yeah, it's complex. Very complex and especially when there's so much money involved and you're

00:30:11: talking about really, really poor people who are living for less than, you know, a dollar to a day

00:30:20: who need this kind of money. Yeah, which brings me to the core question. Is it then that we need

00:30:26: a systemic change? Yeah, systemic change. We do need a systemic change. I think we need an entire

00:30:34: revolution when it comes to fashion. I think we need a lot of transparency within the fashion

00:30:41: industry and supply chain and also getting the message across not just to designers, but also

00:30:49: to consumers, not just having it within closed walls, but getting people, how do you get this,

00:30:54: how do you get people to understand what they're buying? I mean, we heard about the blood diamonds

00:30:59: at one point when the movie came out, but we never knew about it otherwise. And then we started

00:31:04: questioning diamonds. Otherwise, we still didn't have any idea about it. I had no idea about it.

00:31:11: Even now, when my grandmother would buy corals at that time, and we look at it now, it's now when I

00:31:16: tell my family, you've got to be careful, you know, if you want to invest in corals, because this

00:31:21: is exactly what's happening. And when we look at it, that's when they realize because India is all

00:31:26: about jewelry, they love jewelry, it's something that yes, and it's handed down from one generation

00:31:35: to another, it's like saris, you keep them and you want your children to have it, their children

00:31:41: to have, so it's a heritage piece. But what do you buy now? And how do you source, how do you know

00:31:46: that you are buying it sustainably? So when you have stores that take your gold and melt it and

00:31:53: you can get a new piece made from it, I think that's a much better ideal because you know where

00:31:59: your new piece is coming from. So the same thing, if we could do that in the fashion industry and

00:32:06: educate the consumers, I think it's going to be huge. But we need to get a lot of creative

00:32:12: industries involved in this to show the true side of fashion and also give solutions.

00:32:22: Because right now we're just showing what the industry is about and people are like, so what

00:32:27: can I do? And then there's this big chasm of darkness. Which also it has to be also affordable.

00:32:36: And because you focus a lot on the consumer, I think, let's think of me right now as a consumer,

00:32:45: there's a lot to think about. I don't know when to stop. I go to an organic food shop,

00:32:52: and I think I'm pretty safe there only to find out later that maybe it was not that organic.

00:32:59: Or I buy clothes, or I buy a car if I buy a car. Or I go for a swim in the ocean and I put

00:33:09: some cream on or whatever. And there is so much to think and to leave it all up to the individual,

00:33:19: I think this is a lot. So how would it is a lot? Yeah, it is a lot. And that's why I believe that

00:33:28: it has to start from the industry itself. Yeah. And if we educate the new age designers who are

00:33:38: looking really deeply into sustainability, I'm talking about the students, design students,

00:33:44: they would be the ones who would go to the corporates and point out the mistakes that they're

00:33:50: making. And the corporates do not adhere to what this new group or this new age of designers want

00:33:59: them to do, they're going to be called out. And it gets out into the press. Everything that they

00:34:05: find, whether it's your sustainability report or anything that you are affiliated to is going to

00:34:11: come crashing down. And that is something which lots of big companies do not want. So you have

00:34:18: to write, we cannot just put it on the consumer. I believe we need to educate the consumer,

00:34:22: but that can only happen if changes are also made internally in the fashion industry. And it can be

00:34:30: done with the new age students who will be coming out and looking for sustainable methods.

00:34:36: I'll give you an example. Like I went to the National Institute of Fashion Technology in

00:34:40: Delhi, which is funded by the Ministry of Textiles. And I'm also an alumni of it. And when I was

00:34:49: speaking to the students, the students who were working with leather, they were working with

00:34:54: Rexine to make prototypes. So I would talk why using Rexine and why would you, I mean,

00:35:01: they were like, no, it's much cheaper. And you know, the same thing about being sustainable is

00:35:06: very expensive. So I kind of deep, deep dive into trying to understand why they wanted to stick to

00:35:15: Rexine and leather. And the most important thing that came up with was like cost number one.

00:35:22: And they said that sustainable fabrics that they were facing or getting in terms of, you know,

00:35:29: the cactus leather or everything that was provided, they said, it's exactly like Rexine.

00:35:34: And when I looked at it, I was astounded because it was true.

00:35:39: The backing was synthetic.

00:35:42: And even if you use it on cotton, it's just a cotton backing on which the pulp is

00:35:49: sprayed and pressed and the top coating is synthetic.

00:35:52: Because there's no other way that they could probably make it waterproof unless and

00:35:56: until you're using something natural.

00:35:58: But if you want to mass produce it or you want to even get it to a point where

00:36:02: people want to start using it, whether it's a bag or accessory, there is going to

00:36:07: be some sort of polymer that is used.

00:36:08: Now, why wouldn't a designer want to communicate that?

00:36:12: Or why wouldn't that company want to communicate that?

00:36:16: They could be saying that, OK, 80% for example, of this fabric that I have

00:36:21: manufactured is made of this.

00:36:24: Whereas 10% is has, you know, some sort of plastic polymer, but I can break it

00:36:31: down and recycle it.

00:36:33: Now, that would be something where people would be like, oh, OK, maybe, you know,

00:36:38: it costs probably a little more, but it's worthwhile to buy.

00:36:42: I'm not investing in something that is cheap, which is going to be broken down

00:36:46: in a year or two.

00:36:49: But I know that this is going to stay with me for probably 10 years.

00:36:52: And that's good because then I can send it back to the company and they can do

00:36:57: something with it.

00:36:59: And how far is the process that you can sell it back to the company yet?

00:37:03: I think the sending back is still very, very nascent.

00:37:08: Like I said, it's kind of starting now where you have to have the responsibility

00:37:15: of taking back the garments that you sold.

00:37:17: But it's a very huge industry.

00:37:20: We need to have some sort of digital footprint when it comes to manufacturing.

00:37:24: So you would know where your fabric is coming from, where your seed comes from,

00:37:29: where it was dyed, what was the dye that was used.

00:37:32: And then it would probably go into a more legal issue as to who owns

00:37:37: the major responsibility of that piece.

00:37:41: Is it the person who made that bag or is it the person who produced that fabric?

00:37:46: Or is it that person who grew that crop?

00:37:48: So these are very, very, very nascent.

00:37:53: And it's something which I think is very interesting.

00:37:57: And that we worked upon.

00:37:59: And I am trying to kind of get this streamlined and seeing how we could get

00:38:06: governments to start employing this, not maybe on a large scale, but probably

00:38:10: on a small scale with the new advent of sustainable textiles.

00:38:14: Absolutely.

00:38:15: It needs strong governments to be on site here.

00:38:21: I'm just thinking if I send back my clothes to company A,

00:38:30: and they have signed up to the whole ESG process, right?

00:38:37: And the SDF and so on.

00:38:39: They committed to recycle it.

00:38:46: And bring it back to the market.

00:38:49: So maybe, yes, this is the longer term key.

00:38:55: Do you think?

00:38:56: Yes.

00:38:57: Yeah.

00:38:57: Yes.

00:38:58: And it also kind of builds trust.

00:39:01: And at the same time, it could also be beneficial for the company in a long way

00:39:07: and for the environment in the long way and for people because then you are making a product

00:39:13: that can be actually biodegradable if you want it to be that way, or recycled or upcycled.

00:39:21: And you start with the end in mind.

00:39:25: So you don't just go ahead and say, oh, you know what?

00:39:27: I'm going to make this product because I think it looks good because, you know,

00:39:32: the fashion industry at one point was just about having a muse, having someone you thought was

00:39:38: really attractive, who had an attractive lifestyle and a kind of lifestyle that you would like your

00:39:45: client to have or the kind of person you were catering to.

00:39:49: And then you would put that person in front of you and you would design an entire wardrobe

00:39:54: for that person.

00:39:55: If that person was somebody who was attending events or, you know, galas,

00:40:00: you would design an entire different wardrobe for that person.

00:40:04: And that's how the fashion industry was.

00:40:06: That's how it still is.

00:40:08: But infusing it with something which makes it more practical where you can take back the gown

00:40:16: after its worn once for the Met Gala, for example, and then you repurpose it and you either give it

00:40:23: back to the same customer or you can have it, you could give it to somebody else.

00:40:26: Now that makes it more appealing because then you start with the end in mind.

00:40:30: And then if that person wants to give it back, then you know how to repurpose again.

00:40:34: And that's the beauty of fashion because we are fashioning something, we are creating something.

00:40:40: And that is where creativity lies.

00:40:43: And that is where we need to infuse creativity with science and practicality.

00:40:49: And you were talking a bit about how to educate the consumers or going into

00:40:55: the fashion industry and educate the new designers.

00:41:02: How do you use your success on different platforms?

00:41:07: So for that, I started a nonprofit called Fastening for Social Environmental Justice

00:41:13: where I educate students across universities in different parts of the world

00:41:21: and create events where they could basically think deeper into their product design

00:41:29: and make pieces that could be more sustainable for the future.

00:41:32: This also gives them a chance to collaborate with other designers who are working in other

00:41:38: global markets and seeing how they could be a cross-pollination when it came to design,

00:41:44: when it came to techniques, when it came to dyes, when it came to

00:41:47: indigenous processes that were only relevant to that country.

00:41:52: So what happens is that you create a hybrid which is really beautiful

00:41:56: and purely sustainable with these young minds.

00:42:00: And at the same time, these people wanting to either take it forward into the

00:42:05: industry that they would like to join, whether it is leather, whether it is just

00:42:10: diamond-ting or even simple as graphics, because we are talking about communication.

00:42:17: How do you communicate sustainably?

00:42:20: Even that's a very important point.

00:42:21: We don't get to see that because we only look at, right now we're just talking about the product,

00:42:25: but communication.

00:42:27: What kind of communication would you like your consumer to imbibe or understand?

00:42:32: So this is, and then getting them to understand how the United Nations work,

00:42:38: the Prince Albert Foundation, if they want to do something which is with the oceans,

00:42:44: but also on a larger scale when it comes to restoration in general, and basically collaborations

00:42:52: with scientists and getting their pieces out that people can understand and question

00:42:58: and want to be a part of the movement.

00:43:02: Yeah, you also do documentaries, right?

00:43:05: And you live in different countries.

00:43:08: So how have you experienced in the last decade the progress of awareness of sustainability

00:43:15: in the society and also in the media?

00:43:19: When I work with creating these short documentaries, I basically live with these people.

00:43:25: The reason I do this is like I want to infuse the lifestyle of people who are probably not

00:43:31: connected to the fashion industry, but how the fashion industry influences their lifestyle.

00:43:37: Let me give you an example.

00:43:39: So we have a lot of natural pearls, right, which we get from the oceans.

00:43:47: And then you also have cultured pearls or freshwater pearls.

00:43:50: Unfortunately, because of overfishing, we do not have place for oysters to grow.

00:43:58: And I'm talking about a city in the south of the southern peninsula of India.

00:44:04: And it's so polluted because of the bottom trolling, overfishing, and of course this algae growth

00:44:12: that at one point, oysters were huge.

00:44:14: It was one of the largest industries.

00:44:16: This is in true reporting, but they don't have the oysters anymore.

00:44:20: So when I went to the Central Marine Research Institute and spoke with the scientists,

00:44:26: I said, I'm going to stay here and see what you guys are doing.

00:44:29: And how are you restoring pearls?

00:44:31: Because pearls we use in the fashion industry is accessories.

00:44:34: So when I stayed there, I found out that the scientists were doing quite a bit to educate

00:44:43: the fisher people about not using nets as, you know, they were using nets like the size of a

00:44:50: mosquito net.

00:44:50: The reason being was they said, oh, but if we don't catch the fish, then the bottom

00:44:55: trollers are going to catch the fish.

00:44:57: And when I spoke to the bottom trollers, they were blaming the artisanal fishermen.

00:45:01: So now when you're using nets of such a small size, you're catching all the juvenile fish.

00:45:07: You're trapping everything and anything.

00:45:10: Now, if you need corals to grow, you need fish.

00:45:13: Everything is interdependent.

00:45:14: And you need if you need oysters to grow, the ocean has to be free of pollution.

00:45:20: This is not happening because then because of the over overfishing of the pearls,

00:45:26: there's no pearl industry.

00:45:28: So what they're doing now is they kind of introducing the nuclei into the oysters

00:45:33: and putting them back in the oceans and having seaweed cultivation happen with it.

00:45:38: So everything kind of grows together.

00:45:40: And one thing that I noticed was because you had the cotton industry where they were

00:45:45: growing cotton, the pesticides that were getting into the oceans, which is also causing pollution.

00:45:49: The because of the algae, people were kind of clearing up only certain parts of the ocean

00:45:57: and having a kind of an integrated ocean system where you would have the bottom feeders.

00:46:03: You would have the crabs in one net above the crabs you would have.

00:46:08: And then above the fish, you would probably have seaweed.

00:46:11: So each and every family had this kind of integrated system where they were taking care

00:46:15: of what they were doing for their own livelihoods because they were not they they were scared of

00:46:21: the open ocean and they were worried that the fish would swim away and never come back.

00:46:27: So when I did that, I also found out that the shell industry that we use so many shells

00:46:34: to make buttons from were basically harvested by boys who were 14, 15, 16, you know, up to 21

00:46:42: years of age. They would dive off these boats. They would and they had the air was pumped through

00:46:50: bicycle pumps. And they just had like this long tube and they would dive five times a day for

00:46:58: 70 meters. They had these big brass plates, I mean, steel plates that they would kind of

00:47:04: have on their feet and dig the ocean floor. They would dig the ocean floor, dig up all the shells,

00:47:09: pull up the entire hall and then send it for processing where you make, you know, some of

00:47:15: the shells were used for religious purposes. But most of them were also used for the accessory

00:47:20: industry. So these are the deeper aspects when it comes to the fashion industry and small things

00:47:26: like buttons, when it, you know, pearl, which we don't think about, but there's so much of human

00:47:32: labor that is behind it. And the fight behind it is because no more food. And I just got back from

00:47:42: the Maldives and the Maldives is teeming with fish right now. I have not spoken to the scientists

00:47:47: there. So I do not know what challenges that they face when it comes to the fish. But I can tell

00:47:54: you one thing. When I was swimming with the turtles, there's absolutely no coral life that I saw.

00:48:00: And I was also told that tourism is one of the largest factors when it comes to breaking of

00:48:06: the corals. 80% of the corals are broken because of tourism. And you cannot have any of the

00:48:13: tourism people say anything to the tourists because Maldives depends on tourism. So this is

00:48:19: the sad fact of what is happening around the world and how everything is interconnected.

00:48:25: And coming back to the Maldives and the the the corals, there we are exactly back at the problem

00:48:35: everybody faces, this vicious cycle. You cannot, you have focused your economic

00:48:45: idea on tourism. Let's just stay with the Maldives now, right? So the model says tourism

00:48:53: or upmarket tourism. This is my model. And we implement it. So they do implement it.

00:49:01: And they realize it destroys the very source of their profit. Yeah, it destroys their ocean.

00:49:10: It destroys the water. So and yet nobody can find a way to break out of that cycle and A,

00:49:22: create a new model, right? There must be other economic models. And B, be truthful or educate

00:49:32: the tourists. So when you when you were there, what was or did you have an idea of how to do better?

00:49:40: So when I was there, the first thing that struck me was I did not see any quarry garden around

00:49:51: which was conducive to marine life in the way of what it was probably 15, 20 years ago. So what's

00:49:58: happening is that we do have, you do have the local fisher people who take you the, you know,

00:50:05: the from the tourism industry, but they take you to a place where it is already a quarry graveyard.

00:50:11: So when you have coral restoration that's taking place, I hope that you don't have

00:50:16: tourists going over there. But the coral graveyard, you have a lot of novice people who can't swim.

00:50:22: So you definitely going to step onto corals, you're going to break them off. And even if you

00:50:27: have something budding there, it's not going to grow. So it gets to be very difficult even trying

00:50:33: to explain it to them because like I said, they do not want to be filmed. And they do not want

00:50:39: this to reach the wider audience in the world, because they're like, we will be troubled if we

00:50:46: get this message across. But the very cause of the income is also ending it. It's also ending it.

00:50:57: I think they're also working towards trying to find out ways like in the resorts, lots of

00:51:03: resorts that are funding these coral restoration projects, which are really, really good. But

00:51:09: the time has come. I mean, it's too late now, you have to do something. Also,

00:51:14: you know, the warming waters, there's a lot of coral bleaching. I saw a lot of bleach corals.

00:51:19: I mean, it's not just here, I saw it also in the Andamans. And even when I was in Sharma

00:51:26: Sheikh in Egypt, when snorkeling, I saw a lot of people stepping on the corals in Egypt. So

00:51:33: it's unfortunate. It happens. But I think stringent laws have to be taken now by the

00:51:38: government and by people who are doing the coral restoration, what I think is a great thing

00:51:43: that they're doing it. But to put that in place and not let people or tourists go there anymore.

00:51:52: Till we, till we revive it. Yeah. Runa, how far have you moved on or away from your time

00:52:04: when you worked in Paris for Dior and Jean Galliano?

00:52:11: Wow, it's been, it's been quite, quite a journey.

00:52:19: It's been quite a journey. I mean, I wouldn't know where to start, but I think it was probably

00:52:25: the fact that I always believed that fashion had to have a purpose. I loved working with

00:52:31: Jean Galliano and Dior. But again, I saw a lot of waste that was generated because of the fur industry.

00:52:37: So the skins came in in different colors of Husha and pink and turquoise at that time.

00:52:44: And they were not used by the designers because the animal was not skinned in the right way.

00:52:49: I think that was something that really struck me really deeply. Because I thought that we were

00:52:54: making the lives of those who couldn't speak ugly because of us to look good. And that's when I said

00:53:01: that fashion needs to be used as activism, which can advocate and educate for policy change.

00:53:08: So taking that banner forward, I think I have navigated not just through the,

00:53:15: not just through couture, but also through ready to wear and Tretopote and seeing what

00:53:22: changes I could make within the industry till the time I took off and started my own company, which

00:53:29: started using the over, you know, surplus fabrics and made jackets into it. And at that time,

00:53:41: I had a lot of companies that were rejecting the lots because they said that they wanted

00:53:46: the size sets to be or a particular color, whereas mine was mixed. And that was something I couldn't

00:53:53: negotiate with because they said, no, I want a black in small, medium, large with a ratio of two to

00:53:59: one. And if you don't have that, I'm sorry, we can't keep that. And that was how companies were

00:54:06: basically rejecting orders. And I decided to work against the flow and did not work with those

00:54:12: companies, but put everything online. So people had a choice to buy. And it didn't matter whether

00:54:18: you had just one black large jacket or buy two, because you had, you were not at the mercy of

00:54:28: the retailer who want all the size sets. And if it didn't sell, they will send it back.

00:54:33: So stock was a huge issue. And that is something which I think a lot of companies deal with,

00:54:39: not just in the fashion industry, but any industry. So how do you calculate stock?

00:54:44: And how do you know exactly how much to manufacture that it doesn't go to waste? And in an industry

00:54:50: that is so trend focused, where we have created the fact that, oh, we're going to get red, which is

00:54:56: the color for the next season. How do we change that? Because then the consumer will not wear the

00:55:02: blue that they bought the previous season because it will be like, oh, it's so out of fashion.

00:55:06: And that's primarily the mistake that we started. So navigating through that, creating something

00:55:13: which is timeless and which where you don't have to feel guilty when you go through the streets of

00:55:21: a city called Tirupur, where the dogs come out looking blue because they've all been,

00:55:27: all the garments are dyed blue. And you're like, oh, the color of the next season is blue.

00:55:31: That's when you're trying to make some sort of change happen.

00:55:35: Yeah. But when you said, I'm sure let's, let's hope a few designers listening to you right now.

00:55:42: You said opening an online shop. Okay, opening an online shop. And then how did it go for you?

00:55:50: I did not open an online shop. So at that time, you had the online boom that started. People started,

00:56:00: they were online companies that started taking off. You had Amazon, you had other, you had

00:56:06: Valora. So I signed up with these companies and I had the stock with them. And I would put in the

00:56:12: number of pieces that were available. If the pieces sold, they sold. And that's it. I would not

00:56:17: replenish it. I would not come back with the same blue that I made because I don't have that fabric

00:56:23: anymore. And this is something that I, and this was in 2011. And it worked perfectly because I did

00:56:31: not have the issue of stock. And I did not program fabric. I did not go to the mill and say, you know,

00:56:37: what I want 100 yards of this fabric, because I want to make 80, 80 jackets or 70 jackets. And I

00:56:45: was not, I was not forced to make those number of jackets in that one color and then be stuck with

00:56:50: just one color. Whereas I went sourcing, I went to a lot of these companies who I primarily

00:56:57: basically worked with, like Levi's and Aditya Birla, which is one of the largest retailers also

00:57:06: in India. And I would go through their stock room and say, what are you doing with this? This is just

00:57:11: five meters. Can I have it? Oh yeah, you can have it. Because if it's, if it sticks around in the

00:57:16: stock room for more than a couple of years, it ends up in the landfill. Because at that time,

00:57:21: the concept of repurposing fabric was never there. People were still programming it. And it had to be

00:57:26: new and fresh. So it was a very, I mean, I was going and buying the stock lots and making pieces.

00:57:33: It was still a relatively very, very new concept in 2000. Yeah, no, it's, yeah, yeah, it's very,

00:57:40: very interesting. And it seems as if one is in need and looks around, there's always a way out.

00:57:47: There's always a new technology or something new that helps to fulfill your idea on how to

00:57:58: produce differently or how to trade differently. Absolutely. I'm sure that many people are now

00:58:08: quite taken by your courage and your personal journey. Can we go back where maybe to your

00:58:15: early life on where your drive comes from? Because it is one thing to have an idea and

00:58:24: create a brand, but there is another of making it, turning it into your life on the long term.

00:58:35: So you are from India. Can we go back to your roots? How did you grow up? And yeah, let's start with that.

00:58:44: I like that question because I come from a family which is very modest. My father worked very hard.

00:58:54: He started his own paper mill and he dedicated most of his life to it like all our parents have.

00:59:02: And as children, we were always told to be careful with our food. And we would, I remember my grandparents

00:59:15: would, you know, reprimand me or scold me if I wasted food because my grandmother would always

00:59:20: tell me, do not waste food. Don't you see the number of people starving on the streets?

00:59:25: And that's where I think the first start of being responsible came from. And then

00:59:32: my mother was very, very instrumental. It came to discipline. It was about being very disciplined

00:59:43: with everything that you do. And even when it came to buying clothes, you know, as a teenager,

00:59:47: you always want to buy what's in fashion. And she'd be like, don't buy what's in fashion because

00:59:51: that's going to go buy something that's going to stick with you for a longer period of time.

00:59:56: So as a teenager, you would get really angry because you'd have your peers wearing, you know,

01:00:00: these lovely shorts, but you were not allowed to buy them because you know, your mom would be like,

01:00:06: just buy the same shorts, but probably in a simple color that you can wear for like a longer period

01:00:11: of time. So it started off with being conscious about your consumption. And when it comes to drive,

01:00:18: I think we were always made to understand how hard people worked around us. And we needed to do

01:00:28: something with our lives, not just with our lives, but also to see what we could do that

01:00:32: creates an effect around people in general. My father started his company. His pay, the,

01:00:39: he started a handmade paper company. And then that moved into industrial paper. But he was very

01:00:45: proud of what he did. I'm talking about 40 years ago. And he said that my organization employs

01:00:54: women. My paper is ash free, it's wood free, it's chemical free, and it's completely recycled.

01:01:01: This was something which we never understood, but we grew up with it, you know, we grew up with it.

01:01:07: And I would be like, how is it ash free, chemical free, you know, wood free. And he'd be like, yes,

01:01:12: because I'm buying all the cuttings from the textile industry, which are waste, and pulping it

01:01:19: and making it into paper. And so we grew up with that. And we understood the concept of waste to

01:01:26: wealth. And that's something which has kind of, you know, stuck with me. And that's why I always

01:01:32: look around me and see that number one, do not waste food, because food and fashion compete

01:01:38: with each other, what you're eating, and what you're wearing is probably growing on the same

01:01:42: piece of land. It needs the same amount of resources, the same amount of water. And we need

01:01:48: to take care of it. And understanding this entire, entirety together was also the fact that I come

01:01:56: from a family where my father is Hindu and my mother is Christian. So there was also a lot

01:02:02: of tolerance between the two of them. And at that time, the concept of in India, we're talking about

01:02:07: the concept of a love marriage never existed. It was always an arranged marriage. So for people

01:02:12: from different religions to come together and fall in love and actually make a life together

01:02:16: was very, very, you know, and so I grew up like celebrating both religions, all the festivals,

01:02:25: and just having a great time. And that's when I, when I worked with the global peace flag,

01:02:31: these are the things that get to be a very, very important part of the degree, because I know

01:02:37: what tolerance, not just tolerance, but acceptance is when it comes to people from completely

01:02:44: different backgrounds. That makes me also now understand better why you are in the age of five,

01:02:53: I think I read, won the UNICEF art competition. What happened there?

01:03:00: So at the age of five, I had my mother who got me to do this one, one painting. And when we went

01:03:11: to this, went to the UNICEF that had its event, and she, I remember her taking me over there,

01:03:17: and she said, and I said, what do I draw? And she said, think about me and think about you.

01:03:23: And what is it that I always tell you? And I looked at it and I said, you always tell me to be careful.

01:03:29: So I drew this, I drew this mother duck speaking to its child duck, and I had all the trees and

01:03:39: everything around it. And I kind of wrote a little thing at the back that said, be careful,

01:03:43: the fox is looking. And that, that was something which I think kind of intrigued them quite a bit,

01:03:50: because there was a purpose behind the whole drawing. And, you know, as children, we are always

01:03:58: told to be cautious where you go, be careful of who you meet, you know, don't take this

01:04:03: suite from somebody or don't look around, look left and right when you cross the street.

01:04:09: So, you know, parents are always looking out for their children. So that was something which I

01:04:13: translated onto my canvas and got me to win the first prize. And it came out also on the postcards.

01:04:19: And I never knew at that age that I would actually be associated in some way with the

01:04:25: United Nations in the future. But it's a lovely cycle, isn't it?

01:04:29: It's wonderful. It's absolutely circular. And to tell you something, even the ducks that I drew

01:04:35: were circles. Yeah, but I was thinking, I was, we were talking here before I

01:04:41: asked you for an interview, I said, I find that fascinating because she started when she was

01:04:47: five unconsciously clearly on what the UNICEF is and so on. And then what did you later do to,

01:04:53: to, was the peace, peace flag? Did you knock on the door and said, look, I did that at the time

01:04:58: and I want to do something new? Or how did it work? So with the United Nations as a peace flag,

01:05:04: they were looking to see what they could do with the fashion industry and create an intersection

01:05:10: between climate change and peace. And it was a concept that I already started harboring in 2020

01:05:15: and in 2021, we had the school, I had the schools in California who started contributing towards

01:05:21: the concept of it. So I approached the city hall and I said, I have all the schools that speak

01:05:29: about peace and during this time of COVID, and I'd like to cover your facade. So the entire facade

01:05:34: of the city hall that was covered and press went crazy because it was all artworks from all the

01:05:42: schools around and people would stand, stop, look, you know, take photographs. And then I said,

01:05:49: we need to do this with the United Nations. So we had one of the students go in, I got the

01:05:55: United Nations to interview one of the students on the day of peace. And this was in 2023, I think.

01:06:05: And the UN said, we love the concept. So we would like, so there's this one initiative called the

01:06:12: SDG action campaign that I've been involved in. And they would like to endorse the project and

01:06:19: see how it could be taken across, not just in the US, but globally. And that was a concept anyways

01:06:26: to do globally. So I started working with people who were in prisons, we're going there and teaching

01:06:34: them about sustainability. So I went to San Quentin State Prison and I asked them and, you know,

01:06:41: it took me a year to volunteer with the inmates who were there. And I got to repurpose their old

01:06:48: shirts that would have been ended up in the landfill into canvases. So they spoke about peace

01:06:52: within their, within the system that they belong to. I went to several schools, the international

01:06:59: campaign to abolish nuclear weapons. So we even have countries who haven't ratified the treaty.

01:07:05: You have this, you have people within those countries who do not want the country to have

01:07:10: nuclear weapons because we know it's devastating. I started collaborating with a lot of other peace

01:07:15: organizations like World Beyond War, the international campaign, sorry, the International

01:07:20: Peace Bureau. And the next thing that's happening at the White House in 2025 is going to be an

01:07:27: intersection with fashion and peace. So we have peace, people who actually have studied peace

01:07:33: and who know the science behind creating peace, like the, you know, international physicians

01:07:40: against nuclear weapons, for example, and also bringing the creative side of the fashion industry

01:07:48: that can mel together. And the reason I bring this up is because the current war that's happening

01:07:54: now with, you know, unfortunate thinking that's happening with Russia and Ukraine,

01:07:58: you have a lot of pesticides that are being used in the cotton industry, which is stopped

01:08:05: because of the war. And that affects also the fashion industry, but also everything,

01:08:12: you know, like crops and everything, but our skin, but people don't get to see that.

01:08:18: So how do you create that intersection where you have something which is very, very strong and

01:08:23: scientific and very policy driven, and also something which is soft and beautiful and nurturing,

01:08:31: which humanity look at and say, oh, that's beautiful, but also creating that melding of the

01:08:37: hard and soft. And that's what I'm looking for. Well, Runa, I think that was a very, very fascinating

01:08:44: hour and a deep dive in the fashion industry. And I think before we end it, I just would like

01:08:53: to know from you what legacy do you hope to leave? Wow, that's a very deep question. I think my

01:09:03: journey has just begun. But what I would like to see is people realizing that we are all one,

01:09:11: we are woven from a common thread that creates this tapestry of humanity.

01:09:20: And that's what makes this beautiful world and that we are all interconnected. And that we need

01:09:26: to understand that we are very nice people. We don't need to, we don't need to be influenced by

01:09:37: politics. We need to use our own minds and understand that if you're in trouble, I'm going

01:09:43: to help you. And I having the trust if I'm in trouble, I know you will come and help me.

01:09:49: So if I could leave behind something, it would probably be that of trust.

01:09:54: Yeah, I think this is a wonderful, wonderful thing to leave that we can trust. Wow.

01:10:05: Runa, thank you very, very much. That was really wonderful. And yeah, I wish you all the energy

01:10:15: you need. All the necessary stakeholders coming to support and great success. And I hope this show

01:10:24: will help to spread the message a bit. And yeah, so that we can all have a bigger impact together.

01:10:32: Thank you so much, Zabel. Thank you for everything.

01:10:37: You've been listening to a special English edition of the Gorsa Neustadt,

01:10:42: a German podcast series by Zabilla Barton, in which she talks to pioneering leaders who are

01:10:48: committed to making our world smarter, greener and fairer. For more information, please visit

01:10:54: www.zabillabarton.com and the official site of the World Economic Forum.